Ann Diamond interviewed by Emma
Links
[1] 2023 J S3E31 | Ann Diamond – ‘My Cold War’: Exposing MK Ultra, Encountering Leonard Cohen, & Healing Trauma
Transcript
good heavenly father today we put on the full armor to protect us against attack we put on
0:08the belt of Truth to protect against lies and deception we put on the breastplate of righteousness to protect our hearts from The Temptations we put the gospel of peace on our
0:18feet to walk in your light Peace and Freedom with the Holy Spirit we rebuke anxious thoughts we take
0:24up your Shield of faith for protection to block and destroy all the darts and threats thrown at
0:30us by the enemy we put on the helmet of salvation to cover our minds and thoughts reminding us that
0:35we are children of a mighty king we are forgiven set free saved by the blood of Jesus we take up
0:42the sword of the spirit your living word that has the power to demolish strongholds in a sharper
0:47than any double-edged sword we come to you Lord in prayer daily and Jesus mighty name we pray amen
0:54what’s up you guys welcome to the imagination I’m your host Emma and this week I’m honored to
1:00introduce to you someone that I was introduced to recently through independent investigative
1:05reporter and journalist Kathy Fox and someone who has undoubtedly had a tremendous impact on
1:12my own Journey learning about the hard truths of the world introducing MK Ultra Survivor and
1:17whistleblower blogger author writer educator and selfless Advocate and Diamond an original
1:24whistleblower of our time and was one of the first to publicly whistleblow MK Ultra and has since
1:29given a voice to countless victims encouraged to countless survivors of government-sanctioned
1:35abuse of all kinds and Story begins in the 1950s in Canada where she was sold into the MK Ultra
1:42projects as a child to prolific MKUltra programmer Dr Donald Ewan Cameron of McGill University in
1:50Anne’s words quote the story of MKUltra in Canada has never been properly told it was a pan-canadian
1:57phenomenon not limited to Montreal and Dr Cameron in the early 60s much of what had been a McGill
2:04University program was gradually transferred to Toronto specifically to York University in an
2:11emerging Counter Culture scene that became a breeding ground for me for many Fabian and Tavistock influence movements and programs Saskatchewan was another Center for Mk Ultra mind
2:21control about which very little has been written unfortunately Canada’s publishing industry is
2:27very much a product of that covert expansion of MKUltra throughout Canada books like Ann Collins
2:32the Sleep room presented a partial account but failed to get at the roots in British Eugenics
2:38and Nazi Psychiatry or hint at the vastness of this program which was secretly promoted
2:44at the highest levels of our establishment unquote in this episode this week you guys
2:49will hear Anne’s amazing testimony surrounding MKUltra and her involvement in Project monarch deep dives into some notable and suspicious connections she had in her life including
2:59Canadian singer songwriter poet and novelist Leonard Cohen as well as some recent updates
3:05and information from her personal life Anne’s voice has been a crucial part of why podcasts like
3:10mine are able to exist to begin with and I want to give a special thank you to Ann for her courage to
3:16continue forward after all these years so the children of tomorrow can have a better future than the children of the past and of today we are so grateful for the work you’ve done to pave the
3:25way to where we are today and so you guys without further Ado please help me in welcoming walking
3:30Miracle whistleblower Overcomer and all-around inspiration the one the only and diamond and
3:37thank you so much for being here with me today wow I’m flabbergasted I almost finished it was great
3:46I love writing the intros it’s so nice to finally meet you like I said you had
3:55such a big impact on me when I was waking up from my Slumber with you know learning about
4:00the world and it’s such an honor to finally have you on and I know a lot of people that
4:06listen they might be a little bit newer to your story and that’s that’s awesome because we’re gonna dive into it today but I wanted to say how how awesome is it now that
4:17people are finally interested in this for you I mean I can’t imagine what it was like in the early 2000s trying to talk about this you know it that has to feel so good for you
4:26yeah I think something’s changed for sure certainly nobody was asking me to do podcasts
4:32or and I couldn’t even get anyone to read my book you know and you know and the other another thing
4:39I remember about that time was that when I started when I would talk about it to people who were you know who said what are you writing about and what what is this story I would uh Shake
4:50it was so um so it was so intense to me that my voice would change and I I’d start to just
4:58kind of shake you know vibrate and um I thought you know I’m not really I don’t think I’m ready
5:04for it you know to go out of the house for this because it’s so intense and also when you have
5:11the feeling that nobody knows what you’re talking about and therefore nobody will believe you it
5:16just adds another layer to the you know some of it is just is just going through trauma it’s reliving
5:22trauma as you remember and try to talk about it and some of it is knowing that there’s nobody
5:28you know no one will understand except other survivors who who were out there at that time I was not the first one or anything I had people like Carol rutz you know and and uh Kathy O’Brien
5:40of course sent out so many Lynn Sharman you know in in Ontario and so yeah yeah but it has
5:49it has really broadened now and it seems to be something you can actually talk about voice yes
5:59sorry yeah I said and you have people like you who are writing blogs and books and people like Kathy
6:04O’Brien who have a film and I think one person at a time just over the years it’s getting out there
6:10to more and more people and they’re finding you more easy you know and I gosh back in the early
6:152000s trying to figure out you know where other survivors are I mean that had to have been a whole different world it’s hard now to research stuff and we have everything at our disposal that had
6:25to have been just a really neat process for you over the years to just see the difference now
6:30versus how it was then yeah I hope that’s true because I know that when I started and it was in
6:372003 really that I really started and I would read for like 10 12 hours a day sometimes because there
6:44was a lot on the internet but it was It was kind of you could find whole documents you could find
6:51um conference papers uh you know transcripts from all kinds of stuff was there I’m not sure
7:00some of that hasn’t been taken down now because I don’t right now I don’t go back I don’t go back and review at all I mean I I took it all in at the time but I hope that what I hope it’s true I mean
7:12I think it it has become more General I hope they’re not deleting and erasing the evidence
7:19that’s something that everyone worries about you know absolutely yes but that’s why voices like
7:26yours is so important because you are the evidence you know and you have that information within you
7:31within your mind and in your heart that you can express to people and they don’t need articles now you know and I love that yeah maybe that’s true and so let’s get into your story a little
7:43bit let’s maybe start either you could start at the beginning or wherever you want but I’d love to paint the picture for people your testimony is incredible and like I said you’ve been speaking
7:52out about it um for decades now so I’d love for you to share with people who might be newer um
7:58and we can start wherever you want and just kind of flow through and I’ll give you space to talk okay and you and feel free to interrupt me because I can go on and on okay I’m sure I’ll have some
8:09questions it’s much harder to write a whole book than it is easier to write a book than it is to
8:15write a little blurb in many ways you know so you just didn’t feel free to interrupt because but I guess I would start just by saying that that I was born in Montreal Canada province of
8:28Quebec uh French Canadian Catholic um province of Canada with it with a lot of control by the
8:37Vatican the Catholic Church on the population here and I had an English Canadian Scottish
8:43Canadian father and a French Canadian mother my father was Protestant and spoke only English my
8:49mother was French French Canadian was Catholic and spoke French and English because anyway that’s how
8:57it was then so I grew up with a twin brother in Montreal during the Cold War born in 1951 and
9:04it happened to be the same year that the first uh Conference was held in Montreal at the Ritz
9:13Carlton Hotel that brought together the basically the troops the the big players who would go on to
9:22be the to start the mkl tour program and that was in August I think 1951. so you and Cameron was
9:31there but Alan Dulles and all you know CIA head of the CIA and all kinds of military people people in
9:38um Information Technology at the time uh medicine Psychiatry and they just brought
9:45together all these experts cybernetics was I think starting then too you know so they had and
9:52um and they and they put them in this hotel and had a conference and they basically planned the
9:59cold well the post-war period of the Cold War had already started and how they were going to use new
10:06forms new kinds of weapons involving human beings like human um what is it just the human mind would
10:16become the new Battlefield that’s what they the kind of thing they were talking about at that time and uh so they chose I believe they chose Quebec because it was isolated very fascistic very
10:29controlled from the top down very obedient people very religious and with and also because there was
10:36a huge population of babies born after the war uh two unwed mothers because the soldiers coming and
10:44going during the war so they had everything they needed to start a project here and I uh
10:53since I was born that same year it took a it took another few years but by 1955
10:59basically my father had agreed to put my twin brother and me in the uh project at McGill which
11:07was running with the famous notorious Dr Cameron at the head of it and he was directly in you know
11:14working with Alan Dulles you know in Washington and and the uh and you’ve heard of Sid Gotti you
11:21know they had started the in 53 they started the mkl2 program and the other thing that was
11:27hap that had happened in Quebec in 1953 was the there were hundreds of thousands a hundred
11:32thousand duplessly orphans they called them the orphans that were born to unwed mothers
11:37who were who had been put in orphanages after the war because you couldn’t be a single mother easily or at all in those days and so they had a population of disposable children
11:49so it was a great place to bring together a secret enormous secret project and and that’s
11:59um you know most people living here have never heard of any of this many people
12:05even now don’t know that this happened they don’t know what they were that you know many
12:11people had relatives who were part of it and they they are really still living in a state of ignorance about it so I’m a product I was a child who was chosen for the program a more privileged
12:24than the orphans because I had my mother and a father and I I was home living at home and
12:30and also my father was a professional he was a music teacher in high school so it gave him gave
12:36us a little more status than some people so I was put into a program at McGill with gifted children
12:44supposedly yeah I had a high IQ my brother also and my brother was very Musical and um and so
12:51we were placed in this special program and my parents believing that they were but this was
12:58something wonderful that had been offered to us because we were very lucky and and special and so
13:03they didn’t catch on for a long time and so your parents you didn’t you weren’t in a generational
13:10family in the sense that your parents had gone through this they they were basically coerced into
13:16thinking you were a gifted child and that they were going to to pay basically for a great future
13:22for you you’d get special education and you know be around kids like you and it wasn’t like that
13:30exactly that’s the difference I think if you have you’ve had other survivors on who were definitely
13:35they came out of generational they even say generational satanic Bloodlines to I don’t
13:40think so I mean it’s very it’s hard to find these things out but I have no uh none of those kinds of
13:47memories about my parents and I have been told my parents were just basically decent people who go
13:53who were who were tricked or a coerced there was some black male involved because of my father’s
14:00military background and there was something going on he was an Air Force intelligence and
14:05I think pressure was a lot of pressure was put on him so it it was more yeah I think I think my
14:12family are different from some of the other it’s making me different from some of the others if I was maybe two um I’m not sure how you know maybe more maybe I’m more naive you know and less aware
14:24of certain things or I don’t know or maybe I was spared some of the stuff that they went through
14:31I feel I witnessed some pretty horrific things but I’m I don’t that’s all I know I I have amnesia
14:38walls too and I admit that I I still have them but I’m I’m working with it you know so instead of
14:47good is that a good place to start yeah that’s I appreciate that I think you know everybody’s story
14:53is so different and I think the commonalities are what help make people understand that oh my gosh
14:59how how is Anne’s you know experience so similar to Kathy O’Brien’s which is so similar to this
15:05person over in the UK and then this person over in Ireland you know the commonalities validate it but
15:12it happens so many different ways that it’s very hard to almost you know comprehend and so I love
15:18the differences and being able to talk about that too because it helps people in real life you know
15:24have empathy for people and to always think what could this person in front of me have possibly gone through you know because this could be anybody it doesn’t have to be a generational
15:32family it could be a great family who’s trying to do something good for their children you know
15:37just normal family didn’t have any of this in the background and they make you know a big mistake
15:42and don’t realize it you know maybe ever and so I I love you know your story brings awareness
15:48to the other side of it which I think parents that that say why I’m not generational that could never
15:53happen to me or my kids and it’s like no this can happen to anybody anybody yeah I I totally agree
16:01with you and understanding all the different yeah the different circumstances that we’re operating and how that I don’t know I guess how that also helps people how it helps keep it secret because
16:12people don’t talk you’re not part of the you know the same middle years sometimes they’re living
16:18different realities man I just thought of myself I thought of myself as having an idyllic childhood
16:24that’s I had a problem I wanted to when I got older I wanted to be writing fiction you know
16:30and they always and they say well you have to be able to remember your childhood to write your first novel and I didn’t all I remembered were these lovely scenes you know in the country
16:39swimming on the beach with my cousins boating you know hot dogs you know a hot dog hamburger
16:46roasts and playing hide and seek and those are my memories they were so Bland but behind that those
16:53were behind us memories which were real there was a whole thing going on you know I was being taken
17:00out of school in in first and second grade I was being taken downtown I was in the mental hospital
17:07um you know this is what I figured my school records show that I was absent half the year
17:12and suppose they had all these illnesses but I had a few I had mom’s measles and so on but that
17:18doesn’t account for 100 days missing exactly 100 days on my report card and later in life
17:25I met people who remembered me from McGill as you know as they said I knew Miguel I said I
17:31never went to Miguel I didn’t go to Miguel but I was a kid at a hospital that was owned and
17:39operated by McGill University and which was recruiting you know kids for this for this
17:44military program so they remembered me sometimes and I would just you know I was too little
17:51to to Really form memories I think for the older older kids they they had like a social existence
18:00too and they also had you know stronger brains basically more developed brains so as a child
18:05that they would they would give the little kids LSD and it would just swipe them out they wouldn’t have any memory of having been through an experiment you know or a party with a lot of weird
18:18sadistic stuff going on you know and that kind of stuff it’s come back to me in different ways
18:24so let’s let’s dive into that a little bit I know around age three and a half four
18:30um was when you were allegedly diagnosed with pneumonia and I know that that was one of your
18:36earlier memories of this let’s maybe talk about like how what you experienced going
18:41into this this program versus what they told your parents you’d be participating in
18:48right well I think that was just a pneumonia I think I actually had pneumonia or I had a very severe cold and it was freezing it was January in Montreal and what I I have a very vivid memory and
18:59I’ve had it all my life of of being taken in a on a stretcher out of the apartment building down the
19:06walk and into a waiting ambulance and everything you know drifts the snow drifts and everything’s
19:11frozen and they put me in the ambulance and they closed the door and once I’m in the ambulance I’m
19:17looking up at the attendant and he puts a mask over my face and it stinks it stinks of ether
19:24I mean I know the smell of ether I was three and a half it was not oxygen so I pulled it off
19:31and he was not an Iceman at all he gave me a you know and he just forced it onto my face again I
19:37have an absolutely clear memory of that you know that I’ve always had and um next thing I know I
19:42woke up in a award I and I think I was strapped to the bed and there were other children around
19:49but then it’s very vague it’s very and I have and then I have a kind of a memory of my of my mother
19:55coming to see me and um being very nervous and very frightened and I have all the other memory I
20:02have is I pooed in the bed at some point so there was this you know black turd lying beside me on
20:08this on the white sheet when I woke up and I went oh no and a nurse came and she was you know she
20:15wasn’t very happy and she but I have I’ve always had that memory that’s um but my mother came and
20:21wanted to know what was happening and they told her some of this is me being told later they told
20:28her that I had almost died and therefore she couldn’t see me she couldn’t take me home and that’s why I didn’t recognize her but um what I’ve learned since or what I what I believe because
20:40I’ve seen a file an emptied file nevertheless my Psychiatry file from 1955 to my conscious
20:48knowledge in life I’ve never seen a psychiatrist and no one ever said we send you to it we sent
20:53you to a psychiatrist when you were four years old you had you know you were saying never I have no
20:59it’s blank completely gone but I had apparently a file that was quite thick I could tell by the
21:05folder 1955 four years old and this had to be Dr Cameron’s LSD experiments at McGill because
21:16there was no children’s Ward there it was an illegal secret project there should not have
21:22been any children at all in that hospital there was a children’s hospital for children and I
21:27was told that you you know you cannot have a file here from 1955 because there were no children here but then they found the file said Psychiatry you see so there’s is it’s
21:37been this it’s a convoluted process for me of finding out my parents I think always just
21:43I I think they they had suspicions doubts fears that the psychiatrists then worked at
21:49calming and coming up with explanations for so they were always had you know a carrot
21:56you know carrot and stick kind of situation that there’s something coming for your daughter
22:02there’s something good that’s going to happen so just you know just trust us basically and
22:08they would make up explanations and so into things so just so if that gives an idea I mean
22:14um my my mother had to know that I was seeing psychiatrists but she was probably I’m guessing now she’s been dead for 30 what 40 years so I could never ask her but
22:26um it must have been just a pace of trusting the doctors and if they said don’t tell your daughter because that that will ruin the program you know what we’re doing for her then she would
22:36have gone along she wouldn’t have you know she would have obeyed their instructions
22:42so I I grew up in a yeah I I was half in half out of school with living a double life as far as I
22:50can tell and making friends downtown that I met you know down at McGill who I met like when I was
22:55in my 20s then they came up again they had you know they were and even recognized me sometimes
23:03oh my gosh that had been wild for you it’s a whole it’s a whole situation I don’t know
23:09whether this exists it probably did exist in other situations in other cities but it seems like it
23:15was an engineered program in Montreal and a lot of it had to do with the Arts entertainment music
23:24and creating this a population of uh creators and media people who would
23:31then be part of the future you know program basically brainwashing the population through
23:40a core population that that they started with in when they were children
23:48that sort of make sense though doesn’t it yeah and it sounds like a testing ground almost yeah
23:55and then people were chosen for their own you know the crew I mean I found it very easy in the beginning in my 20s to just get things published and be just find you know
24:08I was I was being encouraged rather than most people are discouraged from doing those kinds of things but I was getting encouraged I was I was getting encouragement I was getting people
24:17mentoring me I had people coming along it all just seemed so natural magical normal in a way
24:24but coincidental too and now I see well you know there was much more to the there were other people
24:31you know also having the same things happen they had been chosen basically talk a little bit about
24:38Dr Cameron and McGill University um and the programs that they were running because I
24:44I think to Canada like you said it doesn’t get you know recognized as much as maybe the United
24:50States or some other hot spots for this but this was a really big deal what they were doing and I know that they weren’t the only school but I know that you know Dr Cameron he was you know kind of
25:00a big deal back then in these programs and he’s a name probably a lot of people have never heard of
25:05I’d love for you to to just give some context to that and you know what were they working on and what was their goal there and you know what do you remember from the program right um
25:18um what I remember of the program is a kind of a patchwork of things I don’t maybe I’ll get
25:23to after but um Dr Cameron was a scottish-born American psychiatrist he trained in Switzerland
25:32and then he uh came to Canada ran a program at a hospital and then he went to Massachusetts
25:38too and then he um and then I think then he came to Montreal but he always had contacts in Albany
25:45New York right so he um that’s where he right after the war met with Alan Dulles the CIA OSS
25:58hand at the time who who uh hired him to go to Nuremberg to the trials of the uh of Nazi war
26:08criminals right and there was one in particular Rudolf Hess who had who’s a Defector and then
26:14people may know the story they may not but Hess had uh Hess had been very close to Hitler
26:19and been very high up in the Nazi in the SS and then he just defected and he flew to England so
26:25they’d had him in Spandau no Spandau was Germany I guess but they had him in a prison in Scotland for
26:34um you know for the rest of the after I don’t know a couple of years during the war and then in 45 they brought him back to Germany to try him for
26:41war crimes but they wanted because he was a Defector and possibly a spy
26:47you know working with um who knows could have been working for British intelligence too or
26:53he’d be working with the Nazis then they didn’t know they probably knew but they they wanted to
26:58make sure he made the right impression at the trial so they got two psychiatrists from um New
27:04York well and one of them was Dr Cameron Dr you and Cameron at the time and the other one was uh
27:10Nolan Lewis Dr Nolan D.C Lewis and he was he was head of the New York Institute of Psychiatry and
27:18they got these two guys and they sent them over to to um Nuremberg in Germany and had them interview
27:25has but now what people say is it’s like when they brainwashed him they wiped his memory
27:33so that when he was on trial and he was confronted with people he’d worked with in the U in the SS he
27:40didn’t recognize them he didn’t know his former colleagues he just didn’t know them his mind
27:45but they they had to CL his mind was in many ways gone I mean he his memory was gone they
27:51had selectively deleted memories which they were able to do then and um and so yeah so he
28:01he I guess he didn’t incriminate himself or you know he said what they wanted him to say
28:06so that’s how the trial played out and then they uh that was a big success but they had those
28:12methods already you know they knew how to do very sophisticated uh brainwashing selective memories
28:23because some of his memories were still intact so right and so then Cameron came back to uh
28:32by that point he was the head of the Allen Memorial Institute of Montreal which had been set up in 1943 and he started using these techniques on patients at the Allen Memorial so
28:43the Montreal experiments that started around 19 you know 43 44 and they were really tied in with
28:51um nasty Germany techniques they were using in the concentration camp some people trauma-based
28:57mind control right on concentration camp prisoners and children mangle this Clinic you know he used
29:05to brainwash children using trauma so Carmen had learned out he had all those files that they’d
29:11gotten from the Nazis and he started deploying that uh those techniques in Montreal on people
29:18just old ladies and young people and all kinds of people who went in there with with problems or
29:25people who weren’t getting on with their families or whatever and their family sent them to to get treated so that’s where that’s where a lot of this um a lot of this began he got a lot of
29:36experience from from just having access to people to innocent you know Canadians it’s that’s that’s
29:45how that that’s Dr Cameron they call it the worst the biggest the largest the worst uh you know uh
29:54uh human experimentation program that has ever existed anywhere ever been done on any population
30:01the largest in history you know it’s so if people haven’t heard of it it’s not because it’s not for
30:06lack of you know trying or anything I mean it really but it’s probably because there is always
30:12um yeah there’s Canada is always kind of kept in a it’s sort of in a separate
30:18place a separate category separate population and I think that’s also why
30:25um they chose Montreal because it was isolated and no one would you know no one would think
30:31things like that could go on here and so it’s been kept a secret for Generations that’s
30:39so you can see why people don’t want to believe it because it does it sounds
30:44crazy you know and I think one of the things to you over generations of time
30:49our own Divinity in the supernatural abilities that we are given at Birth are hidden from us you
30:57know we’re taught a very cut and dry curriculum of you have five senses you know uh telepathy is
31:05fake and all of these things are fake and this is just what a human is it’s a it’s a you’re a lame
31:10thing you know and you’re gonna be depressed your whole life we’re gonna work you we’re going to stress you out and so like we lose that within ourselves and that’s the thing that to me
31:18is really important to learn about these programs is there’s people that know how sophisticated our
31:24software is as a human and what we are god-given born ability is that we were born with and they’re
31:30exploiting them while hiding it from the public you know and they’re using children especially they’re so vulnerable and open to all the magic in the world you know and and they’re being
31:39exploited for it you know and so I think that this is it’s important I think this conversation
31:47it’s really sad to think about what is being done and how they’re exploiting on the other
31:52hand learning about it empowers us to say gosh we’re amazing humans are incredible what we’re
32:00capable of overcoming what our bodies are capable of doing how pliable we are like just because
32:05we have trauma inside doesn’t mean that we can’t heal we can heal miraculously if we learn how our
32:11brains are wired and how our bodies work how they work together and that’s the thing I think your
32:17story paints a lot of is how you know the gifted and talented program and showing how these gifts
32:23are specifically sought out and exploited and then they’re not told to people that aren’t in them
32:31that’s so so true and you put that so well yeah and that’s absolutely I think that’s maybe the the
32:41the deepest truth we can pull out of this experience is that or out of this history
32:48um is exactly what you’ve said it’s that um the and and it’s it’s exemplified by this
32:53gifted Children’s Program they chose kids um some of them they were chosen because they were psychic had sidekick abilities and they which they you know tested for I
33:02mean the scientists knew what they were testing for and uh ESP was a big thing
33:08that they uh they were interested in because they were looking for remote viewing abilities you know to use for the military but all of it of course like you say it was all they they
33:17chose those kids and they had a military they had a really kind of crass military um uh uh agenda
33:27behind it but the what the children had were god-given gifts that Society the churches were in
33:35the process of repressing too so you know have you been told I mean I’m a Christian I’m sure you are
33:42too but you know I’ve been told by many Christians that to explore those kinds of things is satanic
33:50and uh you must never and as a result I think I’ve I know I’ve listened to
33:55that and I’ve been very careful and I’ve kept you know I but but at the same time I think I
34:00think there’s something there’s some truth in what they say you can be swept away by forces
34:06you don’t understand there are spiritual forces out there they’re very dark possibly forces but
34:14and that’s what Satan is all about and that’s why people join Cults I guess but they also join Cults
34:21because they want to expand their you know just kind of expand as children of light too so you
34:26have this whole dichotomy that they play with all the time and they manipulate us and they try to terrorize us and people separating into groups saying oh you know bad over there those people
34:36are bad and you know I I’ve had quite a bit of it too yeah well I’m sure yeah or just this is
34:44fake and this is a conspiracy and it’s like again people have to dive into these things and explore
34:50them but to just outright deny that these things exist we have no idea as a society how to defend
34:56ourselves against any Warfare that comes against us or how to see it when it’s right in front of us or how to even understand you know a crime as big as human trafficking happening all over the world
35:06and MK Ultra you know because they’ve shut all that off and just thrown it off to the side and
35:12they’ve ripped it from education and you know it’s I think it’s really important like I said just
35:18understanding what they were looking for and what they know exists helps us understand how amazing
35:25we are as humans and how how powerful we can be if we all come together the same way that they have
35:32yeah and take back the control and that was you know I guess the the results of science I mean well observation you know if you live in the world long enough and you want in your involvement
35:41enough uh crazy stuff like a war for example you will you will see those abilities coming out of
35:48people and those and those could pass you know the capacity to that you will learn those things as a soldier probably very likely I haven’t been a soldier but that’s why the Air Force was just
35:59you know the Air Force was very involved in this research Eros you know going into Aerospace after
36:07the war um getting children for Aerospace because sitting up uh uh psychic children who for a
36:16distant early Warning Systems there were children taken up north in Canada children taken off
36:23um Native reservations and kept in uh facilities where they were trained because they had these
36:30they had these gifts that seemed to be genetic too partly and very strong in their culture and
36:37they were used in in you know as almost like human radar um little kids right but then later you know
36:45mkl2 you will talk to people and people who are like the spokespeople for it will say oh no but
36:51it didn’t work it was just a waste of time and money MK Ultra was a complete failure and you
36:58know nothing is being hidden because they didn’t find anything they didn’t you know none of these
37:03experiments were real like you said they will they will pretend it was fake when it was very real
37:10you know yeah they gasped us sorry they Gaslight us we Gaslight us constantly yeah
37:19and we’re all I always say we’re in an abusive relationship with the government you know really and they keep coming back and doing it over and over and we keep I know
37:30I know it’s wild but that’s why I always say survivors are you know everybody out
37:36there is there’s people listening to survivors of course like people on the show but for the most part everybody’s turning on their TV and idolizing these political influencers and these
37:45politicians and getting their news from them and it’s like you guys we have to listen to the people who are being silenced and the people who aren’t on the news we need to come to like you
37:55you and other survivors you all have the most important stories because you have the answers
38:00to all the questions that everybody’s asking and then looking at the news to try to find the answer
38:05the news is nothing but lies no it’s just complete you know it’s just a complete game of
38:12deception cause I can’t believe but people do you know people are still being influenced by it I
38:18guess they are your world gets very narrow when you’re someone like me in a way you know it gets
38:23narrow because it is not that much out there you can really relate to that doesn’t make you angry
38:30or you know just at odds with so many people but as I say the more of a the more the merrier the
38:39more of us there are the more we talk the more podcasts like this you know then that’s going to
38:45change I mean yeah we can have a conversation at least you know absolutely yes and it’s beautiful
38:52you know it’s so neat like how else would I have ever met you you know without the internet and
38:57without other people that can bridge that gap of connecting it’s really neat kind of how this whole spider web it’s this community is becoming smaller too and that’s also what they
39:07don’t want they don’t want people like me and you meeting they don’t want you meeting other survivors they don’t want podcasters bringing you on to tell your story but it’s happening
39:17happening and and I really see the audience growing I mean yeah that’s they see that
39:22too I think that scares them but oh well we’re coming whether they want it or not
39:32so let’s go back to you let’s talk about what were you specifically used for in these programs and
39:38then how long did that go for in your life and what kind of happened to transition out of that
39:45well that’s interesting um um that I fairly recently I’ve been I have at least um a story
39:58about it and it and I’ll just say I mean it seems to involve music which is natural because
40:05my father was a musician and a music teacher and had been involved with some Jazz the Jazz scene uh
40:14which was quite well developed in my very it was a big Jazz Center in the war and so some big stars
40:20came out of Montreal like um Maynard Ferguson and Oscar Peterson okay my father knew them
40:26although he was not if he was you know not a great musician or anybody who played in a band and
40:31so I I think it’s just natural that I would have been I would have been streamed my
40:36brother was musical too um into into some sort of program where I would do I was at least with
40:43uh around music because that’s been my life I don’t really play well I don’t I sing a bit
40:49but you know I don’t I’ve never really developed musically I haven’t become a
40:55musician in any way but I’ve always been around musicians so I think as a child
41:01I was put in a program where there were some future rock stars this is what I think that’s
41:07kind of catchy too people probably but I think it’s I think it is um what happened and and
41:14um and they were training Dr Cameron believed that rock music by the time by about 1960 he
41:22was saying this I think rock and roll was way too was um a way to spread mental illness to a society
41:30rock rock music was I mean you know the people of his Dem generation would have looked at you know
41:36uh I don’t know uh Eddie Cochran I just you know uh Chuck Berry over the release of Fats Domino and
41:43said well these people are abnormal you know look how they Elvis Presley main mainly you know look
41:50how that that person’s behaving this is completely like animalistic and these people are sick but
41:57their goal in many ways was to make was to kind of break down society and make people create kind
42:04of a chaotic um world that they could then take control of order out of chaos so so they they saw
42:12rock and roll as a as a way to channel mental illness and you would choose people who were
42:18mentally ill and they would claim their music and then the audiences would go crazy and they
42:23were and they did go I mean look at the girls screaming at the Beatles and Elvis and so and
42:29all those you know that Trend in the 50s and so on they watched it and they thought how can we you
42:34know we’re going to use this plus they were they had developed uh forms of uh electronic you know
42:41um signals through music they’re you know they’re really the the rock the music industry was taken
42:47over by the military in the mid 50s pretty much especially maybe in England and you know Emi
42:53Studios which had the Beatles and the stones and all the big you know they were recording all the big bands and all the big groups um that Emi was the name of was the label it stands for electronic
43:04music Incorporated and it was an Air Force it was an extension of the Air Force and of Chavez stock
43:10right the Tavistock Institute was also involved in that so they really had an idea that we can’t they
43:16were using sound to program children’s brains and they did that on military bases they probably did
43:22it to me they probably I know they were doing it you know around Montreal to to Children
43:28um and it’s basically to see what you could do with sound to someone to change someone’s brain waves and so that that absolutely was part of what rock and roll was intended to be was just
43:39a form of you know Mass entrainment and so at McGill in 1956 I I’m fairly sure that I was
43:52um that there were kids brought over from England who later went on to become
43:58uh rock stars and they were at the party that that I attended when I was five years old
44:07and and my father being a music teacher and being still having kind of fairly senior you
44:14know in his and uh we were well established and up to a point um and my mother having sort of
44:21French Canadian political I thought my mother was from the French Canadian Elite and she had she in
44:27her youth she really looked like a movie star so I think there was I think that’s what I was
44:35chosen for they there was the the idea that I would go on I would become part of
44:40the scene that they were in the process of creating over mostly in England right
44:46in London Tavistock Institute you know about that right you know about that Institute so they were
44:52involved in all kinds of cultural stuff and music and so on um and I would find find my way into
44:58that possibly as a model or maybe is a groupie or something or I don’t know what you know maybe
45:06um uh I was being groomed in some way but I think when I was about 12 I blew it
45:14yeah and and I think my father also got in into the act and realized that what was going
45:22on was basically a kind of child trafficking sexual programming of me right and and that a
45:30grooming for something that he that his own morality right his own ethics were against
45:37and rock and roll he certainly you know he was he um he didn’t want his daughter to marry a rolling
45:45stone that was the big thing at the time you know and would you let your daughter marry a rolling stone because the the those groups those bands were just totally overthrowing
45:55uh traditional morality so parents were appalled by you know the music and so on so that I think
46:02was the cutoff point for me and after that I think it put me into kind of a different
46:09um stream where they were grooming me to have some kind of career at the United Nations probably you
46:14know administrative something boring you know and and so I was put in a I was moved to a different
46:21school I had a whole set of different friends that wasn’t about music anymore it wasn’t it was just very like I became a prefect at school and I was like editor of the newspaper and that
46:33kind of that kind of stuff but I was like being groomed for some sort of intellectual you know and um and so that’s in an I think in a nutshell that’s what happened to me
46:46was that you know but originally it was going to be music and I think they flew me to London in
46:511963 just as the Rolling Stones were at you know and we’re launching their first record and I think
46:58I was there for that I have a I have a recovered memory of it you know so it’s kind of died I find
47:05that kind of exciting to remember that now to have flashbacks and to you know and even having
47:11conversations about it with people who were there but but um I didn’t I it’s recent it’s recent for
47:18me to even be able to remember some of this stuff and um uh you know anyway that’s the yeah I’m I’m
47:26sort of you know there’s no it’s not all bad in my opinion because I don’t think rock and roll
47:32really was bad I think rock and roll actually was liberating for us and I think it I think it worked
47:37against the program as much as it did program people it also made people awake and critical
47:46and so I I don’t know I think it’s just it’s this um story of several Generations I don’t
47:54know how it is for your Generation Now with music and what is happening coming to you through music or what music you listen to but you know I think um that’s I think that’s what happened to me
48:05back in the 60s right well that’s interesting too because you know frequency that’s another thing
48:10that people kind of keep out of the way and it’s such a big thing that they use against us you know
48:16music has been changed dramatically all genres from the frequency that it’s broadcasted to the
48:23words that they say to the harmonics you know music used to be these you know beautiful like
48:28Beethoven compositions and just layers of music you know and now it’s you know all auto-tuned and
48:35it’s you know it is in a lot of ways satanic like what is you know being broadcast and mainstream
48:40you know it seems to be yeah but that’s it’s fascinating that you say that because you know
48:46that’s been something I think especially the last couple years that people have become more aware of is the Hollywood model and looking at it with a critical eye finally and saying
48:55what is happening on the screen right now like this is weird you know what why are people dressed
49:01as Devils and you know why is why are celebrities walking out in Blood and you know talking about
49:06these things like that’s very it’s become very obvious now to people and it’s finally getting attention but I think the whole music industry like you said you know they’ve inverted music so
49:16much to where they use those frequencies against us and it puts us as humans in a low frequency
49:22you know when you think about rock music I think some rock music can almost be popish
49:27you know but then you have like the heavy metal that branched off from rock music which is you
49:33know extremely toxic and like you said getting a reaction you go to a concert and people are mosh pitting there’s people that have died of those concerts you know it’s like they just
49:42constantly are trying to push the boundaries on like what raises frequency and then what lowers it and how do we control people using those different Dynamics you know you’re right it’s
49:52it’s so multifaceted too you know there’s so many sides to it I mean I I read somewhere I mean heard
50:01that in 1972 that’s when the rock music industry completely switched over to satanism
50:07some people say that I mean they say that’s when the the the new bands coming in had to
50:13sign contracts or or they also when they began taking uh screams recorded screams of children
50:20being tortured and underground bases and so on and they began you know adding it how do
50:25you call that you know subliminals putting it into the music of subliminals all of that took
50:31off in 1972 was the cutoff date so um you know I don’t know I lost interest in music after 1972
50:40but that was just because I was in my I I was just at an age where you’re not that interested after in your 20s it’s not like when you’re 14 you know you’re you’re riveted to music you’re
50:49being really you know you’re really vulnerable to all to to all of it but by the time set night was
50:551972 I was 21 and I was I was kind of in the you know not interested I was so so they but
51:02anyway I I think it’s just gotten much worse much more sophisticated um and yet there’s great music
51:10I mean if you kind of listen out there there’s all kinds of wonderful music it’s playing even on you
51:16know I used to keep my radio on a few years ago and I mean I would hear great things but
51:22um some of it was from other countries other cultures that didn’t have French the French
51:28didn’t have this you know and in Montreal I could tune into French stations pure French pop music
51:34and not get this that I don’t know I could listen to it you know um it didn’t seem to be there to
51:41destroy your mind I seemed to be there to you know do the things the music’s supposed to do
51:47make you fall in love you know that’s incredible too just how you know different parts of the world
51:53might have a different type of program that’s being run and it’s almost like the whole world’s their experiment you know and it’s like this country we’re gonna try this this country we’re
52:01gonna try that we’re gonna do this we’re gonna do that and then they’re just observing with a microscope saying what’s going on like we’re in these little Petri dishes in our countries
52:11yeah and they’re all running it through the giant computer you know the Beast or whatever and you know and they can spend the rest the next hundred years as they need to analyzing it and
52:20exactly yes 100 and so after let’s say age 11 12 when your father had some maybe discernment and
52:31said okay we need to move on from this was there ever discussions I’m sure you didn’t remember anything but what happened after that until you’re your memory started recovering
52:44I just got um well my one thing about my father is they took him and they put him in the hospital and
52:49they brain want and they also depattered him that was what Dr Cameron you know called his method
52:56um uh deep patterning which was to take you know basically to interfere with the Neurology of you
53:03know of the brain you know and to and to he said we were all I don’t know I was just reading the
53:09other day there were people people’s minds people psychology is really just a whole
53:14um complex system of multi-layered patterns but if you shake up those patterns uh you
53:19can change the person you get a different person so he would literally wipe people wipe people’s minds I mean with electroshock and drugs and so on and repeated messages
53:30and um it played hundreds of times through with a football helmet and ear and earphones and a
53:38battery or something running this this tape in people’s heads and um so my father actually was
53:44taken from his work from the school where he was teaching in um December 1962 and put in
53:53the hospital and he stayed there for six weeks and when he came home he really had to have that he had he didn’t really recognize us at first he had to he had to relearn you know his own identity
54:04and um that’s what happened to my father in 1962 now I was 11 at that point um I they
54:11hadn’t finished with me as far as I can tell they because I was an asset to them and they had paid
54:18money for me so the fact that my father was now kind of he couldn’t work anymore he was
54:24at home and he was that you know he was sort of pushed aside they continued working on me
54:30at that point and that’s I think the following year is when I think they sent me to London
54:36um on a you know and I remember being in London in 1963 you know walking down the
54:43street in this little dress but that’s just come to me in the last three years two years
54:48that memory I didn’t have that memory for most of my life so okay what I think then I think um
54:57I think that caused a crisis in my family and we suddenly we we we began making plans to move
55:04out west to completely leave our home everything behind my parents loaded up the car and we were
55:10going to Alberta and and we drove across Canada that summer but something must have happened on
55:18when we got out there maybe we just we saw kind of Canada and we really want to leave Montreal and
55:23live out on the Prairies you know and I don’t know but anyway they changed their minds and we drove back and then kind of resumed our lives so then a year later I was in high school in high school
55:34that’s another it was that was for the first year of high school it was music The Rolling Stones The
55:42Beatles and the whole and all of my friends were crazy about um uh The Beatles The Rolling Stones
55:48and a television program called The Man from Uncle which when you look at it now you can see
55:54the people writing that program had to know a lot about MKUltra so that was okay we were watching it
56:00weekly and it was a kind of programming coming at us through a spy you know it was about two
56:07spies one was Russian one was American and they worked together for this United Nations type of
56:13organization and they went all over the world doing crazy things since on we love this show but I think also it was it was triggering some kind of programming or something too at least
56:22maybe in me or I don’t know maybe other kids who you know at school so it was after that year so
56:28after 1965 they they um they just I seem to have decided that I had to be moved to another school
56:37and put into another um onto another track in life and that just took me to University I mean
56:46um once I was in university all I wanted to do was make Revolution you know was to be was overthrow Society I was angry I was I joined women’s movement I joined you know
56:58um black power was happening and I just was got involved in this much of that kind of thing as I
57:03could be involved in 1968 1969 and so that uh you know and then I lived in a women’s commune and you
57:13know and uh went to abortion demonstrations and you know we did all kinds of stuff that was like
57:20the whole hippie Revolution right activist yeah period and a lot of American draft Dodgers have
57:26come up to Montreal so they were really organizing a lot of these things too so that was my kind of career I mean until my mid-20s when when I got fed up with the women’s movement I could see that it
57:39was some for it was like a form of Mind Control I didn’t like what was happening to the women that I knew who were in it who at first we started out with so much optimism and hope and energy and and
57:50positivity and it became something very different uh very negative very anti-male very very narrow
57:58in some way and I just said I have to get out of this and at some point not that long after I
58:04met Leonard Cohen and he was a figure in Montreal who had at that point a kind of ambival ambiguous
58:12figure bed at the same time famous in his own way and he became a kind of a mentor for me so
58:19that took took me off in a really different direction I think that was I think he was
58:25um he definitely he would have been in the hospital himself he had gone through the program
58:31Dr Cameron he you know he had been there been a lecture shock numerous times many people had
58:37seen him in there many he even talked about it to some extent and so I think he was a a programmed
58:46uh singer writer poet and all these things but um at a higher level where he had become himself a
58:54programmer and I think he was my Handler and but you know at the time again it was like a
59:01wonderful you know Wonderful coincidence to run into him or have him phone me one night you know
59:07invite me over and so that’s when my life took off in a different kind of a different direction
59:13I started writing and I began kind of imagining this career as a writer journalist you know who’s
59:22writing poetry all kinds of stuff so about how did how did you meet him and how did that come about
59:30he used to just I everyone could meet him and you know in some way he was awesome just wandering
59:36around town um he he had a bad reputation you know with women picking up young women and that
59:43I and so he was someone to avoid in in many ways at least that I did for years avoid him
59:51um you know he would stop you you’d pass him in the street he’d be there you know and he would
59:56he would recognize him you know and then he tried to start a conversation um he was in bars a lot
1:00:03you know and uh at the same time he was going you know he was going to Israel and he was you know
1:00:10fighting in the Yom Kippur War and coming back and you know he bought some buildings and had
1:00:16that little corner um of the downtown that was kind of several buildings that he owned and then
1:00:23he started a family had a kid I had a couple of kids you know and and when I met him he had his
1:00:29children were I think three years old and five three and five and he had split with his wife
1:00:35so he just phoned he got my number from from someone that I knew who was his Carpenter who
1:00:42was renovating one of his buildings and this person had been telling me about Leonard and
1:00:47you know you should get to know you should meet Leonard and I was saying I don’t know and finally I gave him my phone number and uh I said if you see Leonard you know maybe he can you know here’s
1:00:58my phone number so within 24 hours I got a phone call and he invited me over that was it was that
1:01:06simple I lived about two blocks from him at that point two or three blocks I thought was there in you know 10 minutes or something and then just friendly you know social kind of chatting and
1:01:19tea and played this guitar and sing cowboy song and that’s how I kind of you know got sucked in
1:01:29it was you know and I felt very lucky that that this had happened I didn’t understand
1:01:34like I’m sure now that what he was doing was he was kind of calling me back he was he was he was
1:01:42um assigned to me he was partly acting out of you know instructions because I had started
1:01:49publishing poetry so he CL and a book had come out and I was in anthology and he told me he’d
1:01:56read my poems and that’s why he called me because he liked them better than anyone else’s you know that’s what he said then that’s why I believed you know at the time oh he likes me you know but
1:02:06I think there was much more to it yeah much more was going on and it was about getting me back
1:02:12into the under the umbrella and you had mentioned that uh in other interviews that
1:02:20you’ve done about a possible connection whenever you were a child with him at the McGill University could you talk about that right you’ve heard that story now um
1:02:32um that I can’t explain I can’t find another way to explain how closely
1:02:41he um he seemed to be able to relate to me when I was meeting him for the first time how he seemed
1:02:48to know me how he seemed to you know he invited me into his world it made it really made no sense and
1:02:55nobody would believe it you know like why would he do that because it wasn’t like I was running after
1:03:00him and trying to seduce him or that I was a very sexy woman who you know he found her or something like that it was absolutely not and it was just like a friendly thing but it was somehow family
1:03:10and the okay so about how many years ago five six years ago I had a friend who’s since deceased but
1:03:18he um he did a meditation one day at one or you know and told me he you know he was going
1:03:26to go into what the causes of this relationship with Leonard Cohen that had eaten up a lot of my life had really taken up a lot of space in my life he didn’t he didn’t think that he said
1:03:35there’s something wrong or there’s something hot there’s got to be a reason for it he did a meditation and he saw me as a child on a table in the hospital kind of on a you know a stretcher
1:03:45or something surrounded by doctors and white jackets and they they were Electro shocking me
1:03:51and I was in the I was four or five years old is when I think this actually happened now I had had
1:03:56my own flashback to them a couple of years before but I never talked about it and I never told him
1:04:02but he kind of spontaneously you know traveled to that time saw that happening and he saw that
1:04:09you know and I’m from my own flashback I knew they electroshocked me to the heart and it caused my heart to you know splutter not you know and then they said well if we
1:04:18do this again it could be lethal and okay we’ll try I mean that was their attitude I mean that
1:04:27was these doctors right oh let’s do it so they were about to do it and in my flash book that’s
1:04:33the point where I woke up kind of in a being feeling shocked which kind of right you know
1:04:39jumping in the air almost off the table and I woke up from the flashback and you know that’s what happens often you can’t go beyond a certain point then you just can never find out
1:04:47so my friend Patrick saw what happened at that point he said a guy comes running in the room
1:04:55uh it’s Leonard Cohen he’s like 20 years old and he stops it from happening
1:05:02for me it was completely believable because it explained the whole psychology of my relationship
1:05:09with Leonard where he was he called me we Annie even though I was six feet tall and you know and and you know he had little little habits you know it was sort of sometimes as if
1:05:23he saw me as a little girl which I was not I was 26 years old and I was six weeks old and
1:05:28I was not a little girl you know I was he was five foot seven so I mean um uh it just it just
1:05:35explained it explained to his patience with me and explained how he he was very tolerant of a lot of
1:05:41things he was very jovial he kind of treated me in this way that you know it just it just wiped
1:05:49away all the strange unanswered questions of the relationship which had gone on for 20 years
1:05:55and which really fell apart because of another little girl where you know I so I mean um
1:06:07where I began to sense this pedophile you know under current two and then just freaked me out completely so that’s really one reason why the relationship
1:06:17my relationship with him couldn’t continue but um you know I think he just I’ve never I don’t
1:06:25know if I’ve ever said that before to anyone but but I mean he I think he was part of a generation
1:06:33and and his own like programming was the Hugh Hefner generation and they were introducing
1:06:41pedophilia along with the whole all the you know things in the 60s the sexual Revolution and the
1:06:47feminism and all the things that were suddenly you know current and they were being promoted
1:06:53everywhere like transculture now they were promoting they were really beginning to promote
1:06:58sex between children and adults in the 70s Hefner and was talking was hinting at it in Playboy and
1:07:06you know it was becoming it was going to be the next thing and I think Cohen felt also that it it
1:07:12was um if he believed in it so much as he felt it was inevitable or something and so I picked up on
1:07:20that sometime around you know in the late 70s I began noticing that and I just you know found it
1:07:26anyway wow did he say certain things or what was it that gave you that Vibe what was what
1:07:33what was it that gave you that Vibe did he make comments or what did he do Behavior
1:07:40um talk it was yeah I don’t want to talk too much about people but yeah things he said some Behavior
1:07:46with children um not that I saw sexual behavior I didn’t but I sense the atmosphere and what the
1:07:53children were being exposed to and what they knew about which seemed like you know I mean of course
1:07:59later generations were exposed to a lot more than my gen my little generation you know in
1:08:06the 50s but nevertheless I found some of it you know disturbing and um I couldn’t
1:08:12get a clear answer out of him I guess about it and I just started to distance myself you know
1:08:18um I don’t know what more to say about it it’s just more like he felt I I think he you know
1:08:24in the same way that he embraced religion in a very you know like I a total kind of way he would
1:08:31um he would take on these kinds of beliefs and so on very he was dogmatic in a strange way he
1:08:40was he’s like he saw his role as being to you know to uplift people in some ways and teach
1:08:46them you know the Torah you teach them the true teachings of Judaism or or Christianity too but
1:08:53but then he’d also you know sort of teach him about the programming that was coming you know
1:08:58he he was kind of an all-around mouthpiece I mean you never stopped talking you know like
1:09:06me now I understand it better now but I thought it was interesting too how you had mentioned and
1:09:14it’s not surprising but it’s just again there’s so many hidden societies and hidden roles that people
1:09:19have behind the scenes that the public doesn’t see how you had mentioned he was a 33rd degree Freemason yeah I’ve been told that I’m by several people yeah and then he had also talked about and
1:09:31kind of hinted at bringing you into kind of a weird cult that he may have been in right
1:09:38wasn’t he talking to you about some cult like a death called or something like that it was um
1:09:44there was a period when he seemed to be forming a cult and he was also a member he was a student of
1:09:50a Zen master in California called Sasaki roshi so he was he was kind of he yeah he was um I had been
1:10:00studying for you know a couple of decades I guess and he started talking about bringing Judaism and
1:10:06the Kabbalah together with Zen and creating a new religion and symbolism and so on and this was at a
1:10:13low point in his music career I think that’s when people get into these kinds of things you know so he he you could see it was very much on his mind and that to to talk about religion but a kind of
1:10:25cult you know kind of culty type of religion you know and the kind of thing is Masonic essentially
1:10:30Masonic and he had you know he designed these symbols male and female energies you know
1:10:39um you know and then I think his career I think that kind of ended when suddenly had it had a
1:10:46hit record again in 99 about 1988 he found a new manager and she uh rebuilt his career and
1:10:53suddenly I mean I think that’s when he kind of in a way dropped the the put that as put aside
1:11:00the religious thing I and and got into music for a few years and you know it just had this
1:11:07checkered career I also believe he he I know for a fact he went on missions uh he was a a mercenary
1:11:16but no one knows that it seems nobody really wants to look at that but but I I would say uh he he was
1:11:24often in places where there were were Mossad you know had installed itself or the CIA was
1:11:30involved or there was a revolution in progress and he seemed to play some kind of role in revolutions and um coups and things like that the Bay of Pigs in 1961 in Cuba and you know and Ethiopia
1:11:44Israel well during the war there yeah so he was a military person he had weapons training you know
1:11:54it’s very complicated yeah and I think especially for you you know having this coincidental what
1:12:02you thought was coincidental uh relationship with him and then finding later potentially that maybe
1:12:08this this relationship in a sense or just this connection was going on for a very long time since
1:12:14you were little yeah and there was affection that came I believe there was the strong this was the
1:12:20whole thing about it it was hard to dismiss for me uh that there seemed to be genuine affection
1:12:27and this it was quite uh yeah complicated to to process I and for a while I thought he’s just
1:12:35a Buddhist you know he just loves everyone and so I would introduce people to him thinking well
1:12:41he’s going to love them too you know you know they’ll get some of this love and they didn’t they did and then so slowly you know it took me a long time to realize well it’s because you know he
1:12:52no he doesn’t love everybody he but he remembers this little girl that he knew at one point in the
1:12:58hospital we Annie you know that was the thing now it’s very simple when you figure it out
1:13:06but I had Amnesia right I had no memory all of that was gone from the lsdn or whatever
1:13:13they did to me to make me forget all of that he remembered though you know so it humanizes
1:13:20him you know I think that’s the other thing that people who didn’t go through something like you
1:13:26on the outside when you hear about you know the abuse that people are indoctrinated into in these
1:13:31systems and the things that they’re forced to do it’s not good you know it’s very uh there’s
1:13:37a lot of violence a lot of trauma there’s a lot of forcing people to do things against their will there’s a lot of non-consensual actions you know and then those people grow up to then perpetuate
1:13:48It On to the Next Generation right and so of course Society should be so angry that that these
1:13:54people are out there walking you know there’s very little persecution but at the same time it helps
1:13:59to humanize people and to to remember that they were also born children of God who were abused you
1:14:06know and these people were were taken advantage of they were programmed they never had a choice their whole life and a lot of them still like I bet any of them you know if they would have had a
1:14:16choice they would have chosen love and they would have chosen to be kind to the child or the or the children you know and and it just didn’t happen that way because they never had that choice and
1:14:25they never got that choice and I love how your story you know it Paints the picture of who he
1:14:30might have been you know this Intel person who is handling you all his intentions or the things that he was made to do with the relationship may not have been pure but it seems like there was a
1:14:40place in his heart that was very pure for you and that he showed that to you for a long time
1:14:46yeah and that’s ABS again you’re really you’re so clear yeah exactly and it could take it’s
1:14:52taken me many years to kind of process that and come to that that kind of understanding of it I
1:14:58um you know he died in 2016 and uh um I don’t know I had a lot of resentment against him up
1:15:07until that point you know all right up until his death I think and once once he was gone it was
1:15:12as if we had to do we still had a relationship in some way and but it had changed and the pressure
1:15:19that he used to constantly complain about the obligations and the feeling of he had no choice in
1:15:26the matter and many things he used to say that all the time and I used to just not understand it you
1:15:31know I used to go what do you mean you know you’re a millionaire I mean you’re famous you’re telling me you have no control over your career but I think it was absolutely true because the career
1:15:41would never have come to him had he not made all these deals and all these you know all these secret agreements that then he had to pay the price for and so once he was dead thank you thank
1:15:53you Lord you know once he was dead all of that just dissolved and in a way I felt also free from
1:16:01a lot of things because I didn’t have to think about him anymore I think about all the you know all these puzzling you know I had still had these memories of things that had happened we just just
1:16:12you can be free if you can if you can overcome your fear of death you’re free of most things
1:16:18in this world that’s really what it’s all based on that’s how they get us you know
1:16:24yeah so especially like we’ve definitely seen that you know Amplified the last few years
1:16:30everything’s been death and dying and you’re gonna get people sick and you know it’s been this huge Warfare against us being afraid of us dying of something or us giving somebody
1:16:41something that’s going to kill them you know and that’s that it’s so powerful what that does to a whole society when you you know implant that fear and Trauma onto them on a grand scale
1:16:52it’s like blackmailing the whole society isn’t it you know stealing everything yeah stealing their
1:17:00choices yeah like every generation has to learn a lesson in their own way over and over again
1:17:07and it’s always really the same lesson I guess you know like who am I and what am I able what
1:17:13am I capable of and and what will I accept what won’t I accept and you know what am I here to do
1:17:20comes down to those things yes and we’re asking going around you know staying indoors for a year
1:17:27you know that’s not why I came here you know right yes and taking back the gifts that are
1:17:34ours that they want to exploit and you know lower the frequency of you know and step into Who We Are
1:17:42yeah we’re working on it and so let’s go into when you started to have memory recall when did that
1:17:52happen and what what triggered that for you to say oh my gosh my life wasn’t what I thought it was
1:17:59um big time in two it was I was 50. I had just turned 50. so it was in 2003 I mean I’m
1:18:07time flies but really all my life I had some very strange memories like I had I remembered
1:18:14and told my mother when I was four or five about being in an underground base where children would
1:18:21be tortured basically and I and at four I had a very visit you know um I don’t know I mean
1:18:29dream fantasy but it was a scenario that I that came up for me every night I would recreate it
1:18:36in my mind but I had because I’d experienced it I felt but my mother said well it’s a Dream
1:18:42It’s a nightmare you know and it didn’t it’s not real but it was identical it was odd had there
1:18:48were odd details about it that were identical to another Survivor that I found out about I
1:18:53started in 2003 and it might have been folly I’m not sure but um I think maybe it was but it was
1:19:02um China Lake military base in California had the exact scenario that I remembered and I have proof
1:19:11it because I wrote about it in 19 in the 1980s I wrote a short story that got published that
1:19:17describes it so I can’t nobody can say well you just read about it on the internet in 2000 and
1:19:22then you you know it absolutely was with me all my life um and uh so that’s you know memories
1:19:32I remember some of the trauma you know in my family I remember you know
1:19:37um yeah some of the things that you know that were odd that were happening like not being at
1:19:43school you know about half the year and you know but a lot of that’s just behind Amnesia was or
1:19:49they they create anyway that’s but you know just odd things and then but then in 2003 that’s when
1:19:56I really uh had the time and I instantly plowed into MK Ultra I basically stumbled on it and
1:20:04recognized certain things and realized this was this was my city my time my father had been you
1:20:14know in the Allen with this dog the same doctor and it could you know we were involved in it I
1:20:21mean I but I know it ever told me that before it had been downplayed and my parents were more they
1:20:28were more concerned about not us not knowing they didn’t want us to know because I they didn’t understand it either they wouldn’t have been able to explain it and it had traumatized
1:20:38them and they just didn’t want our lives to be you know ruined by so they tried to pretend
1:20:45that nothing had happened and that’s why I have all these idyllic memories of childhood and you know and I’m having been successful at school I wasn’t a you know I was like a model student
1:20:56and um those are yeah that was my conscious you know with the word you know my front altar I guess
1:21:03was like that but but once I started researching then you know things began fitting together
1:21:09it’s funny because some people get flooded I was I was warned some people go and get hypnotized and
1:21:18um OC therapist and be and try to recall the memories I I was warned not to do that so I didn’t do it just at the beginning of you know in the early 2000s
1:21:29um so in instead I approached it from the outside and I did research I I read thousands of pages of
1:21:37about MK Ultra I corresponded with people I didn’t I still didn’t believe that I had been in it as a
1:21:44child until I met a group of psychics in Montreal and they basically came to me and said we want to
1:21:53work with you we think you have a story one of them in particular who I had met who could see
1:21:58who said my father told him you know my father had been dead for 30 30 years at that point but
1:22:05um your father is telling me that his story needs to be told and you need to tell it and I want I
1:22:11have a group of people that will work with you and I was still pretty you know I I knew a lot
1:22:17about the program I knew not about the history I had studied enough and for over a year after
1:22:22a year so I knew the history of it all but I I didn’t see where I fit into it and these
1:22:28people were just natural remote viewers and they formed like a circle and we met week after week
1:22:36and sometimes we videoed you know or taped the session and um they they went to without
1:22:43my giving them any kind of instructions because I wasn’t sure what to tell them they went back
1:22:50to McGill in 1960 and talked to the children who were living in the laboratory under the ground
1:22:55and going through experiments and they and even I I didn’t know about those children and then
1:23:01and none of them knew about the children and we had their got their names and their life stories
1:23:06and we even looked at their files and it was a whole that took up a year or two or even longer
1:23:14that was just amazing and it was we were all just blank we I mean we’re not in no way except for
1:23:21me who had done all the reading and the research but couldn’t connect it to my own life or my own
1:23:27really yet I wasn’t able to to put it together and and these people filled in all those blanks
1:23:34so that is okay that’s where I’ll show you this is my book and I wrote this in 2004 and
1:23:41and it’s called my cold war and that and the story of the remote viewing is in there it’s it’s really kind of a self-published book with it has its flaws but but
1:23:51um that’s what came out of that ex you know that whole period and so on and all the research
1:23:57just tell me my family your book is your testimony right and people can work
1:24:03yeah first person did you say I said where can people purchase that ah online you can go to my
1:24:10website it’s like oh you can go to if you if you Google and Diamond my cold war Ann Diamond my cold
1:24:20war and you might put in Amazon or Lulu either it should be available on both and you should
1:24:27be able to get copies either and there’s free I have it on my website uh I’m giving away the PDF
1:24:34three if somebody wants to you know contact me I can send them a PDF or they can download it wow that’s amazing so you said Amazon Lulu or they could contact you directly and get a PDF of it
1:24:45yeah or even just if they can fund I don’t know yeah I can give you a link at the end of the show
1:24:51so talk about that process a little bit like why why and how did you decide to go public and what
1:24:57was that like for you especially because like how we were talking about earlier it was a different time back in the early 2000s you know what was your motivation to do that and like what was the
1:25:06process um I was motivated by the idea I had a great story and then it would get published
1:25:12and thousand and millions of people would read it I really I mean maybe thousands you know in
1:25:18Canada and then it would make a big difference and it would help people because you know that was my motivation and my belief but what actually happened was there was an a complete uh I was
1:25:31completely shut down by every in every direction that I went to talk to Publishers agents editors
1:25:38you know magazines anybody that I approached um instantly shut me down and I had a I you
1:25:47know published in a couple of novels at that point and I had you know I had been teaching creative writing and a university and so on and I had it I knew all kinds of people you
1:25:56know I’ve been a journalist I had to call him you know in the Montreal Gazette and or anything so I
1:26:02sort of had this public you know uh personality in a way persona but once I came out with this
1:26:10story or I try I had the manuscript and I started trying to just tell people Publishers you know
1:26:16um maybe you’d be interested in this it’s a fantastic story it’s a very it’s very disturbed you know without I believe they they rejected it without reading it because they already knew
1:26:28I was not the first and they already knew that it was absolutely taboo the topic is taboo you
1:26:35cannot talk about it in Canada it’s because of the children because I was talking about the children
1:26:42and it’s they have just crushed that you know it and even though in on at conferences in the
1:26:50states at the time it was being talked about and there were people in Canada that were researching it and and I have met them and so on but nobody has had a book published as far as I know so um
1:27:03what happened was just a complete blacklisting and everybody just you know and then I think people
1:27:08were told I was schizophrenic and I you know don’t even deal with her and she’s gone crazy and it was
1:27:14a real um yeah that happened pretty fast and then that and then I just pulled myself out
1:27:23I’m I moved to Greece I mean I found a I found a a boyfriend to Greece in her life in Greece
1:27:28that was just kind of given just offered to me at that same time and I I just said this you know I
1:27:34I can’t be here and just fight with this because there’s no I can’t even get a finger fingernail
1:27:39hold you know anywhere there’s nobody will talk to me and they’re ready to forget everything like
1:27:44that they even knew me and just you know fall into line it was shocking really to see people
1:27:53you know and uh so that’s it’s been 20 years almost yeah and finally you know a group has
1:28:03formed there’s a lot of um there are two lawsuits and in fact you could say there are three lawsuits
1:28:10in progress class action suits there’s been media some media attention and they still don’t talk
1:28:15about children unless it’s Aboriginal it’s native children indigenous children the Mohawk children
1:28:22because they can’t deny that anymore they found all the mass Graves or they’re you know they think
1:28:27they’re they found the mass Graves all across the country so they can’t stop the Mohawk mothers from
1:28:32saying our children are buried at Mcgill and this has made a huge difference because there are other children buried at McGill there’s a lot of I think Mohawk kids yes in the ground
1:28:42there are a lot I don’t know how many but a lot of missing Mohawk children but I believe there are other other children there and all across Canada there are mass grades with children
1:28:53but you can imagine I mean the Department of Defense has completely you know they they control
1:28:59the media I guess if you know if there’s anyone I think there was a documentary that was going
1:29:05to air in about 1998 and they just canceled it it’s never been seen yeah I was told yeah
1:29:13it’s amazing to me how long they’ve been able to cover all this up you know because there’s
1:29:18even like there’s even proof the CIA has come out and said we did this it stopped but we did it you
1:29:25know and people still are like oh that that never happened or it’s not it couldn’t happen and you had said in an interview you’re like why would they stop something that was so effective
1:29:35you know why would we just believe oh it worked great we’re just gonna stop it though because the public doesn’t want us to do it anymore you know it’s just so tricky and they find different
1:29:45ways and they they destroyed or they hid the records you know it I mean I’m sure they had many panic attacks when they realized that they what you know what they were sitting on and I’m
1:29:55sure that still goes on today at McGill University which you know there was a an injunction and they
1:30:01were and they were had agreed to uh produce the records and they’ve gone they’ve reneged on their
1:30:06agreement within two weeks they were saying no no no we won’t no we won’t we said we would but no we won’t well because they can’t I think because they can’t without completely you know exposing
1:30:19everything and who really who wants to you know who wants to know does anyone want to know well we
1:30:27do you know yeah we need to know that I think more people too would want to know if they could just
1:30:33wrap their mind around that it’s it’s possible you know people are just they’ve just been told so
1:30:39many times repetition mind control right this is fake this is conspiracy so people don’t even want
1:30:45to consider it you know and even trauma trauma in itself we’re so not dialed in as a society on how
1:30:53trauma actually affects our bodies and like you were saying with the Tavistock Institute the whole Rockefeller you know education system they’ve dumbed down and taken out of textbooks for
1:31:04psychologists and counselors people that could have an impact don’t even have access to this
1:31:09information and so they think it’s a conspiracy when somebody like you comes in and says here’s
1:31:15everything I went through here’s what’s going on with my body and they they say you’re crazy we’re gonna lock you up you know and it’s so sad because it’s actually really powerful and interesting how
1:31:25trauma affects us and then learning how we can undo that and so so many people would benefit if they had that knowledge and instead people don’t even realize that what they’re dealing
1:31:34with is trauma much less how to help themselves through it yeah and Trauma and just even hearing
1:31:42about it is traumatic you know it’s just knowing this whole story is is a form of trauma in itself
1:31:50apart from you know the tortures and so on and they did they tortured people sensory isolation I mean they what they did with children at McGill went in directly into the
1:32:00um cia’s torture manual you know kubark torture manual has methods that were developed at McGill
1:32:08by Donald Dr Hebb and Dr Cameron and then these some of these they were great named Dr Lehman
1:32:14you know great names in medicine or of science you know it could really turn you against science
1:32:22I mean what they did was just such a a distortion of Psychiatry you know when I was and when I was
1:32:29I don’t know in my teens I thought I wanted to be a psychiatrist when I grew up I wanted you know I was reading books on Psychiatry and RD Lang and you know all the transcendental you know
1:32:43Consciousness and I thought that’s what psychiatrists would say it’s to help people open up to this you know this bigger universe and to heal themselves and
1:32:51all that but what was being done at McGill at that time was actual torture you know
1:32:59it was intended it was military mind control with no there was no healing at all they just destroyed
1:33:07they destroyed families they destroyed patients they went after their children
1:33:13it was just a criminal it was a criminal operation right in the middle of a world famous you know
1:33:20institution that was being looked to as a model you know around the world just makes no sense or
1:33:29it does you know make sense but it does once you learn but I mean you’ve even said you know this
1:33:34was happening at Harvard and this was happening at these other you know I’m being A-list schools
1:33:40it was so I don’t know I just well just recently I read an article from from The New Yorker about
1:33:45a guy who claims he was it was very convincing very persuasive you know personal story of a
1:33:50guy who was so depressed he was ready to kill himself and electroshock cured him
1:33:56and how he describes innocently it’s from a couple of years ago in the New Yorker I just read it the other day and all I could think of was this is so different his experience the doctors
1:34:06were trying to help but they were very firm we were going to give you this treatment it’s the only thing that you can help you and the nurse you know and he knew all these people who were
1:34:14suffering and he just describes it it’s so Humane it’s New York Institute of Psychiatry that he he
1:34:20was in you know Columbia University and it’s the same institution that was doing the in
1:34:27the military mind control you know experiments in the 50s and destroying people imprisoning people
1:34:35and so what it where’s the what is it is it just certain people that they select
1:34:40that they actually help or is it different you know different time periods different
1:34:48what is going on I mean you know it’s wild what helped you when you were healing you mentioned
1:34:56the group of people that came around you and helped you maybe remote view what other tools
1:35:01were really helpful for you I know it’s not the same for everybody but I love talking about that a little bit because something you know that you say might be really helpful for somebody
1:35:11um I learned I went to the it was called the smart conference I don’t know if in Connecticut and there was a group of people including Carol rutz and I don’t know if you
1:35:20know Wanda carricker she wrote a book you know her book uh no I can’t remember the name but oh
1:35:26the name sounds familiar but I wouldn’t be able to to recall where her book is called
1:35:32um she wrote a book with something that entitled like min oh I forget anyway something about the
1:35:37dawn or I forget but it’s a really very good novel about a small town in in New England where where
1:35:43uh people are being yeah are going through these kinds of cult programming experiences anyway she
1:35:49was there and a lot of other people and and there was a kind of a discussion what is what
1:35:54is the best form of therapy that you can recommend afterwards you know people were talking about it
1:36:00online and and they did a poll of I don’t know a lot of survivors uh and number one is talk therapy
1:36:10if you can afford that or find somebody who’ll talk to you you know I never could so
1:36:16um but and the second is writing so I’m fine with that they’re very close I can’t remember the other
1:36:22you know you know play therapy sandbox I don’t know you know but those two are they’re absolutely
1:36:28at the top so I think if someone you know I never could afford to see a therapist I don’t you know
1:36:33I you know I never went to therapy I wonder what if what would have happened if I had you know back
1:36:40before all this they probably would have given me drugs or something I don’t know you know but
1:36:46I’m glad I’ve always had this habit of writing and I think it’s a good habit to cultivate and
1:36:54it’s very helpful to go back and look at yourself as you you know what you wrote 10 20 years ago if
1:37:00you can keep that you know or even two years ago or even six months ago I used to you know often
1:37:07kind of keep Diaries and uh now it’s mostly in emails but I still can find those you know I
1:37:14yeah and writing’s so powerful too just because it doesn’t elicit that same fight or flight uh
1:37:23sympathetic nervous system response it’s kind of the opposite so it’s really it’s a lot easier to
1:37:28process without having to speak it you know remember when you were saying that when you started talking you would shake and it’s very different when you can keep quiet and just
1:37:37hold a pen and write like it affects our body differently and and puts us in a different you
1:37:42know a different state you’re right do you write yourself do you do I love you I love writing yeah
1:37:52yeah it kind of comes through you know that anyway you become you’re you’re your own therapist then
1:37:58but you’re also your friend your best friend in a way you can talk to yourself without having to
1:38:03you know make excuses and I think it it leads to eventually you know you’re an integrated
1:38:10personality that could take a long time for some people absolutely yes well luckily now
1:38:16we have people like you we have people like Kathy O’Brien and you know Lisa meister’s and a lot of
1:38:22people who have healed and who all have different ways of doing it and now hopefully people who are
1:38:28going through what you did you know to some degree or who are dealing with different levels of trauma
1:38:33they’ll be able to find people like you and get tools more easily than they would have been able to 20 30 40 years ago you know even five years ago you know so my hope is that people you know the
1:38:43process of healing accelerates with time as more people speak out more people share more counselors
1:38:49talk to people like you you know instead of just trusting their textbooks they say what did you go
1:38:55through you know and how does it affect your body and start learning outside of the box you know so
1:39:00that gives me a lot of Hope too that there’s there’s more information on actual trauma and
1:39:06actual healing of you know did and just extreme trauma that’s that’s being advocated for by
1:39:12survivors and you’re seeing that happening right are you yes in the future that’s happening you see
1:39:19it I’m seeing it yeah I’m seeing therapists now talk to Satanic ritual abuse survivors and I’m
1:39:24character survivors and work with those people and try to understand you know that clientele versus
1:39:30just the type that they learned about in school and I think that’s amazing there’s a Survivor that
1:39:36um that I’ve interviewed her daughter is going to school to be a a psychologist and wants to
1:39:42work with MK Ultra SRA victims you know and she learned from her mom the truth and now
1:39:47she’s gonna go apply it to the education system and see if she can kind of pave a way that other people aren’t you know and it’s like takes one person at a time to do something
1:39:56like that to where it becomes more people start looking outside their textbooks and saying what
1:40:02didn’t they teach me in school that I need to know it could take a lifetime you know for some
1:40:08people to get to that point I know I mean that’s so encouraging to know and you’re in but I have also seen up in Canada I mean I know of a couple of cases where some uh
1:40:28an MK Ultra Survivor got therapy in London Ontario which is a huge hub
1:40:35for MKUltra in Canada and yet you know people don’t seem to know it and she she’s got a a
1:40:42therapist to come to her house who was like you know supposed to be helping with her who
1:40:48completely denied her experience and by the end of the it caused her Kathy to to begin to doubt you
1:40:58know and start uh doubt her own memories because they’re very delicate these things you know these
1:41:04horrific childhood infants you know from infancy things are horrible she had some really horrible
1:41:11things happened to her and she’d been getting support from a group of Americans you know she’d
1:41:17gone to the conference at uh with um you know some I don’t know some of the really big names of you
1:41:23know 30 years ago the first people to expose this like Claudia Mullen and blonde shabusty and there
1:41:29were any other names she knew those people and they had supported her but once she was back in London Ontario this heavily psychiatrist Community I mean they have hospitals coming out of
1:41:41the psychiatrists coming out of the woodwork there and and she began calling me a conspiracy theorist
1:41:48you know after because she she just didn’t trust herself anymore she didn’t trust it and I was very
1:41:55you know that’s quite suppressing I don’t think we’re anywhere near where you are and count I
1:42:00think Canada is really backward in this you know so there’s definitely a long way to go you know
1:42:08and one person at a time and it might it might take Generations but at least we’re starting to see some counselors and there’s books being written you know and people caring
1:42:19and it’s like that makes me excited that in a you know a couple or a few Generations hopefully they have a lot more knowledge more widespread in mainstream than we have now
1:42:30yeah and look how I’m sure it’s changed your life you know and really opened and and probably didn’t
1:42:35take that long might have taken you a year or two to sort of or less even to take it in to begin to
1:42:41really get an an understanding you you have a lot you have a deep understanding of it I think
1:42:46it’s been so helpful getting to do this that was one thing like I wanted to start a podcast so I
1:42:52could have one spot where people could go to to meet people like you and to hear from Kathy
1:42:58O’Brien and to have like a library but one of the things that I didn’t realize was how beneficial
1:43:04it would be for me you know I’ve heard so many stories over the last two and a half years and it has like it was so hard for me to understand like I go back to some of my really
1:43:13early interviews and I had no idea how to respond to any of this stuff it just was so out of my my
1:43:19you know my Lane of thinking and it still is like I can’t fully comprehend it but I get it like I’ve
1:43:26gotten I understand the science behind it and I understand the motive behind it even if I don’t
1:43:33get how people can do it it’s like I see a big picture now of what the goal was and is and I
1:43:41could see it in the world being you know Amplified over the entire world instead of just you know
1:43:46at a college or in one spot they’re taking that information and now you know exploiting the public
1:43:52like you know so I think you know these stories really are helpful like it helps so much hearing
1:43:58from you and getting that breakdown of your experience so people like me can say oh and
1:44:05seems brilliant she doesn’t seem like a conspiracy theorist like she’s really smart and what she said makes sense you know and it kind of normalizes the conversation because it’s been unfortunately like
1:44:16MK Ultra you know it’s like how you said it’s not properly portrayed when you do hear about
1:44:21it it’s like this extreme you know way that it’s presented it doesn’t sound normal like it’s not a
1:44:30way it’s not like you know sitting in a classroom and hearing a teacher where somebody can take it in and say oh you know that sounds logical or it makes sense it’s it’s almost exploited in a way
1:44:39where people just write it off right away they’re like that’s too weird I don’t even want to look at it where if they listen to a podcast like this and just hear two people talking it doesn’t sound
1:44:48so crazy anymore when you just hear the stories and how it connects and you do research on the
1:44:54people you know somebody goes and researches the doctors that you talk about in the school and all
1:44:59of a sudden it’s like maybe that could happen like it doesn’t sound so crazy anymore you know
1:45:06Yeah the more we know I mean the more we know the less we know but I think when you hear someone’s
1:45:11story and when they can connect you know when they can connect it all chronologically and
1:45:17show there’s a logic to there’s like a it’s almost like it’s inevitable the way things
1:45:22developed you know they decided they wanted to you know control people’s minds and uh prepare
1:45:28people for a a future where war of where Warfare would be like everywhere that was I think you know
1:45:37bringing Warfare home to domestic populations and then oh well this how would you do it well I just
1:45:43went about doing it in all these you know taking all the people the populations and the people
1:45:49that they could get you know who had who were vulnerable who couldn’t protect themselves the children it just it’s just what you would do if you were a mad scientist with a with a lot
1:45:59of money military background and um not much no compassion or you know anyway absolutely yes and
1:46:12so I’m so grateful for you and all the work that you’ve done and you talked about your book I’d love for you to talk a little bit about your blog talk about some of the stuff that you’re working
1:46:20on and maybe um anything that you have coming up or just where people can can aside from your
1:46:27book where people can connect with you and see the work that you’ve been doing over the years um well I’m sort of working on new fresh blogs right now and they’re they’re sort of
1:46:36only semi-public I’m sort of doing them it’s like my place to write and I share with a few people
1:46:42and I have and one of the one of them is that is really I’m trying to finish my story about Leonard Cohen I I have a little Memoir that I published a few years ago called the man next
1:46:53door about Leonard Cohen and I just wanted to it really wasn’t finished but I felt like I want to
1:46:59put this out there that’s kind of how how it’s been I felt like someday I’ll complete this work
1:47:05but right now I don’t want to just be living in my own little world so that’s why I have a Blog so I can kind of you know there’s people that stumble in it or people that find it and
1:47:15and they learn bits and pieces of things and then sometimes I you know they write to me and
1:47:20um one of one of my blogs is called mother of Darkness I uh I’ll I’ll give you the URL for that
1:47:28um but that’s kind of been frozen now I I was um it seems like they’ve cracked down on it or
1:47:34something so I can’t add to it it’s kind of but it’s there’s a lot of material on it if
1:47:40you skim down and eventually I think I’ll just reorganize takes it take the the take it and
1:47:46put it in some other form but like stuff about Doctrine I have a few articles on Dr Mengele uh
1:47:54and also hit well Dr Mengele are coming to Quebec uh experimenting on children in Quebec you know
1:48:00of the famous the notorious the infamous Dr Joseph Mengele of Auschwitz Fame right
1:48:08um was it was taken was brought to America by the Vatican and one of the first places he came was
1:48:14Quebec because it was controlled so controlled by the Vatican and he yeah he probably worked briefly
1:48:21for McGill you know it’s all been hidden so I have that kind of material that’s some really great
1:48:27material on that blog but you have to kind of scroll through it and I I should be you know I I
1:48:33should be reorganizing it and putting it out there more um there’s some stuff online on that blog too
1:48:39things I found out about him is Cia connections you know the fact that he had a double I want this
1:48:46one of my favorite pieces now I’ve I stumbled on photos that show that in 1961 Leonard Cohen had a
1:48:53double an actor playing him and they were creating a some sort of alibi situation you know Leo same
1:49:02for Lee harveyor as well there were two Lee Harvey Oswald same era you know and uh CIA you know so I
1:49:11found I found proof that Leonard Cohen had a had a you know double yeah life basically well was you
1:49:20know yeah one on a Greek island and the other while he was in Cuba you know fighting Castro
1:49:28for the CIA so that sort of thing on that blog there’s really a lot of good information in there
1:49:35yeah I’ll send you the link maybe you could post it yeah absolutely yeah I’ll put it in
1:49:42the show notes for everybody and are you are you on social media at all when Facebook is
1:49:47and Diamond I can’t tell you the exact but you know and diamond on Facebook I’m one of
1:49:5327 of them or I don’t know how many now but um what’s I I also I’ll give you I’ll send you links
1:50:01um also I’m very involved in a uh I have a site that’s for survivors of these experiments
1:50:07mostly Montreal survivors um and we have there’s another site that I help sometimes
1:50:13help with called brainwashing victims of the Canadian government and so you know there’s
1:50:20um that’s a really good site someone someone is doing a great job of editing that right now
1:50:26and so I’ll send you those links to places where you can you know people can
1:50:32um yeah and book I have this book I have a few books and lulu.com is my bookstore okay
1:50:39and I’m happy to link that to you so people can go down I always say on the show you know we’re
1:50:44so conditioned as a society to just go throw money at non-profits and sure you can you know you can
1:50:50find a diamond in the rough non-profit that is doing good but more often than not the ones that
1:50:56we donate to you know they’re they’re paying their salaries and they’re not doing much with it and I
1:51:01always say go give directly to a Survivor purchase their work you know support their blog go follow
1:51:07them on social media like that’s a really good investment to do that because you know exactly where your money’s going it’s not funneled through a third party there’s no conditions that are being
1:51:17taken out I mean of course things like Amazon like they’re gonna take some money out but I mean ultimately like it’s going around Amazon yeah yeah and so I love when people go support
1:51:27and I love when people you know write me and say oh I went and bought Anne’s books you know and they changed my life so I really encourage people listening please please please please go support
1:51:37you know it’s so generous that Anne takes the time out to do something like this for free for us and
1:51:43she’s been doing free you know with her blog and everything and just speaking out for 20 years you
1:51:49know and she puts out a book and it has all the information in one spot that we could ever want and it’s it’s a really special thing to have something like that that you can have at home
1:51:58and it’s a great gift to give to maybe a friend who’s waking up you know to say I don’t know how
1:52:03to talk about this and I don’t feel qualified to but here’s a book for you to read that’s going to explain the stuff that I’ve discovered you know that I think you should know and it’s you know I
1:52:13think one person at a time you know if we start supporting survivor’s work and we start hiring survivors and we start you know reading their blogs and following their podcasts like then we
1:52:24start creating an industry and we we give you guys the resources to keep doing what you’re doing this stuff isn’t cheap even having a podcast you’re taking time out of your day right now you know
1:52:33all the the time that you take to write your blogs like you’re putting an offer free but there’s an
1:52:38expense on your end of time and energy so I think it’s beautiful when you create something that we can reciprocate and give you something back for it so I encourage everybody to go buy all
1:52:48of your stuff and to go support you and I’ll find you I’ll find the real Facebook for you and I’ll just link your direct Facebook in the bottom to you that way people can yeah foreign
1:53:00another thing I would say too though that I’ve been thinking about lately is that people people
1:53:13really need to come together around this whole subject it’s a history topic and there should
1:53:19be courses given out on it I don’t know if there are anywhere at universities or adult education
1:53:24centers or whatever you know so people could come together because when when I discovered
1:53:30this the world of MKUltra I I was ready to read day and night I was so riveted to it it
1:53:39explained everything and it helped some it was so helpful and also you know it answered yeah
1:53:45answered all kinds of questions and I felt like I hadn’t found a subject in years that had you know
1:53:51captured my attention the way this does and I’m it’s like I’ve never I’ve never found anything
1:53:57since except I kind of like the history of rock and roll interests me now the history of Music in
1:54:03my you know but but um that’s you know I we need I we should be studying these things in universities
1:54:12finding out about it does it happen to all of us I believe it’s not just a few survivors
1:54:18that had this happen the whole society really it’s a whole society yes it helps you you know
1:54:24it helps everybody pull themselves out of this you know manufactured reality and just be able to see the world for what it is and be able to just be more conscious instead of being you know just
1:54:34so robotic like how they want us and depressed and sad you know it’s like wait a minute I’m depressed
1:54:39and sad because my government and my TV are making me this way when I’m out in nature for five days
1:54:44without my phone I don’t even know anything’s wrong you know so it’s like we have to really
1:54:50realize that we the world is bad yes but it’s also very beautiful and we can create the world that we want together instead of just the coming to the world that they’ve created for us and saying
1:55:00I guess I’m just going to be depressed my whole life we can say wait a minute we’re going to come together and reclaim our world and we’re going to create beautiful you know blogs and podcasts
1:55:08and books and movies we’re gonna do it we’re not gonna depend on Hollywood and the government to do it we’re going to create the beautiful world that we want you know and and I think we’re we’re
1:55:17not there yet but the more people learn about MK Ultra I think that’s really what it does is it helps us it helps us reclaim our power back and helps us realize you know what we can do if we all
1:55:28come together versus being so divided like how they’ve wanted us to be yeah and the way we’ll
1:55:35learn is by finding out where we’ve been you know that’s how you find out how to create the future
1:55:40so anyway I encourage everyone listen to your show support survivors and support you I mean
1:55:50you it seems you’re doing an amazing job so I’m going to tell everyone about your show thank you thank you an honor to have you on you’re such a bright light and it’s
1:55:59so awesome to see your smiling face and to just get to actually meet you finally
1:56:05and likewise is there exposing thoughts that you have or anything that you want to say before we
1:56:12start closing up for the day I don’t know I feel sort of you’ve done a great job of wrapping it all
1:56:19up um I’ve talked a lot you know there’s always going to be more but I just hope that yeah I just
1:56:26keep doing what you’re doing and and and don’t don’t stop because I think this is the key to
1:56:33so much it’s like the key that we’re not will unlock all the secrets you know and we have it
1:56:39now yes we have to take our power back in we’ll do it yeah well I will link all of your stuff below
1:56:50and for people listening no matter what platform you’re on Spotify or apple or YouTube or [ __ ]
1:56:55you just go into the show notes really easy and then all the links should just highlight for you so you can literally just click it so please go support and get her book go follow her on
1:57:05social media I’ll have all of that linked below reach out to her tell her she’s amazing because she is and go support her let her know she’s loved and that we have eyes on her um and thank you guys
1:57:15for supporting this show you know it means the world to me I always say I didn’t realize when I
1:57:20started this that it would be just so impactful for me and then for a lot of you and it’s still
1:57:26such a little show but having all of your support means the world to me and I know it’s before it’s time and my hope is years down the road it’s a really valuable resource for people to learn
1:57:35about the world from people like Ann so please share this episode subscribe support us I’ll
1:57:40also have my links below so you guys can go follow me on social media and I really appreciate your guys’s support so with that being said Thank you guys God bless you and we will see you next week
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